(TV) Ryan declared Champ on a "Technical" Knockout

["Casey, Leo J" <CaseyL@VOLPE.DOT.GOV>]

-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Hochstadt 
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 2:48 PM
To: tv@obbard.com
Subject: Re: (TV) Television: the name - and other stuff

> I'm surprised that Leo doesn't agree or get the point. 

I get Mark's point it's just that his obsession with 
vocal-melody, compared to an almost total disregard 
for non-vocal (instrument) melody in Verlaine's 
non-Television work, (and some Television songs) 
together with his academic definitions of what 
must constitute a melody, are wrong-headed and 
unfair. 

Why unfair. Because his narrowly defined technical 
definition violates both the common, everyday, 
understanding/use of the word 'melody'--as well as 
the spirit of it---for the majority of people on 
this List [please, pipe-up now if you really believe 
that 'melody' is principally vocal-melody, or that it 
must result in big sales to be truly deemed a melody], 
for serious (and pop) writers, and even for Verlaine 
and Lloyd. 

If you do even a cursory search of reviews of Verlaine's 
recordings or/and live performances you will find the 
following words and phrases over-and-over again:

"melody"; "melodies"; "melodic"; "their intertwining of rich melodies"; 
"blending haunting melodies"; TV 1993: "I always thought even of 
lead guitar as accompaniment - the main thing is the voice and 
what it's saying, the melody." ; "enchanting melodies"; 
"their intertwining of rich melodies"; "contains one of the loveliest, 
loneliest guitar melodies Verlaine's ever recorded"; 
Says Fred Smith, "but Tom likes the bass to be melodic,  
so I have to fit notes into some  unusual places."; "melodic gifts"; 
Lloyd 1992: "Tom writes the melodies and basic chord structure.; 
Lloyd on a particular Television song: "it has a very strong melodic 
beginning";  TV 1984: "One thing this whole experience made me 
want to do was to develop melody a lot more on the new record, 
in terms of the guitar parts, as well as the vocals."; " "Dream's 
Dream" (TV ) : "It's based on a melody that Fred and I did".

How about this: I'll concede Mark's point and give 
him a 'technical' knockout.

Mark was/is technically right in the sense that 
the word 'melody' originated from the word 'meloidia' 
a singing choral song or from 'melos' song + 'aoidos' 
singer. 

But much more important: I'll concede that TV has 
not ever written melodies that appeal to the mass 
audience [his sales speak for themselves], and that 
his 'vocal melodies' are either non-existent, 
minimalistic or a turn-off to most listeners. 
[I didn't say voice; I said vocal-melodies; 
his voice is a separate *commercial* disaster, 
and I'd prefer to keep the two separate.]  

But I will not agree with Mark (or you) or 
Mr. Marsh or anyone else in the Champs corner 
that Verlaine's non-Television music (or even 
all of Television's) is either bereft of melody 
or not melodic. 

I'm saying that Mark's argument and choice of words 
make it sound like there's no beauty (aka melodicism)
in Verlaine's solo or Television work.

Mark  makes it sound like the music is more of an 
intellectual pleasure, or that Verlaine's music is 
indistinguishable from someone like Captain 
Beefhart's. [to head you Beefheart fans off at 
the pass; I love Beefheart's music].

What do I mean by beauty or melodious?

"Dreamtime" is almost evenly divided between 
the post-coital dreams and the pre-heartburn 
dreams.... "Without a Word,",  "Fragile'" and 
"Mary Marie" make up the first category. 
They are uniformly lovely, and lavished with 
little touches, though save for "Fragile," 
they're no surprise to people who 
are familar with "Last Night" or "The Dream's 
Dream." Perhaps because there's less content, 
the second category has more staying power. 
[Excerpt is from DREAMTIME Boston Phoenix, 
October 17, 1981
by Michael Howell.] 
	
	Leo

ps: If the List can stand it[?] it might be very 
interesting to hear what Verlaine, himself,
has said in print about 'melody' or the lack of 
it in either  Television or his solo work 
(and even what other members of band esp. Lloyd 
have had to say) in more detail.

Moreover, it might also be amusing to see 
whether the myriad of people who have written about 
TV's music in last 36 years (and who know 
a hell of a lot more about musical theory than me), 
characterize TV's music as being without melody or
having very little.

Stay tuned.
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